The Official Bleach Topic (SPOILERS)

[I_like_Nonon]

Ok, so maybe Bleach isn't that much better than Naruto.

Yes, it is. Bleach is much better than Naruto, despite having a few flaws. Naruto has millions of flaws.

Sasuke taking part in at least 10.000 of them.

[Ahriman]

Well, I can't really argue with how the manga is now, because I don't read it.

But Naruto kept my interest for 5 seasons while Bleach kept my interest for 2 or 3. (and only really being good for one, but Soul Society was alright)

[Fuuka Yamagishi]

Ok, so maybe Bleach isn't that much better than Naruto.

Yes, it is. Bleach is much better than Naruto, despite having a few flaws. Naruto has millions of flaws.

Sasuke taking part in at least 10.000 of them.

Actually, I have to say you're wrong here.

It's not that Naruto has millions are flaws, it's just that Naruto's flaws seem bigger because it has not been written in a way that limits itself, while Bleach has been written in a way so that some of it's flaws can't be fixed without it become Dues ex machina, or breaking it's preset laws without seeming stupid. It was almost pushing it with the Shinigami-Hollow blurring thing, but it's still acceptable. If it were, to say, add a third release out of nowhere, it would just seem pulled out the backside.

What I'm saying is, While Bleach has let Ichigo pretty much grow to his (Disappointingly low) max, (as soon as he masters the hollow transformation thing) Naruto simply just hasn't let Naruto grow enough yet. (Although, by author comments, it is coming)

Shadow clone feint and then Rasenshuriken is only going to last so long, as will Hollow Transformation and then red Getsuga Tenshou.

Naruto could be better, but Bleach has got to pull something out fast, or it's gonna run itself into the ground.

So Bleach > Naruto, but's it's not so far behind. If you ask me, both could be better, And I'm waiting for the start of the next arcs to see if they'll redeem themselves.

And I didn't even talk about other things! I'm a bad fan. >_>

[zeldafan42]

Well, the current flashback story arc of Bleach has been awesome. Not only is it filling in some plot information, it shows Kisuke being awesome, and I love Kisuke.

[Gargravarr]

Ok, so maybe Bleach isn't that much better than Naruto.

Yes, it is. Bleach is much better than Naruto, despite having a few flaws. Naruto has millions of flaws.

Sasuke taking part in at least 10.000 of them.

Actually, I have to say you're wrong here.

It's not that Naruto has millions are flaws, it's just that Naruto's flaws seem bigger because it has not been written in a way that limits itself, while Bleach has been written in a way so that some of it's flaws can't be fixed without it become Dues ex machina, or breaking it's preset laws without seeming stupid. It was almost pushing it with the Shinigami-Hollow blurring thing, but it's still acceptable. If it were, to say, add a third release out of nowhere, it would just seem pulled out the backside.

What I'm saying is, While Bleach has let Ichigo pretty much grow to his (Disappointingly low) max, (as soon as he masters the hollow transformation thing) Naruto simply just hasn't let Naruto grow enough yet. (Although, by author comments, it is coming)

Shadow clone feint and then Rasenshuriken is only going to last so long, as will Hollow Transformation and then red Getsuga Tenshou.

Naruto could be better, but Bleach has got to pull something out fast, or it's gonna run itself into the ground.

So Bleach > Naruto, but's it's not so far behind. If you ask me, both could be better, And I'm waiting for the start of the next arcs to see if they'll redeem themselves.

And I didn't even talk about other things! I'm a bad fan. >_>

I don't think Kubo's just going to stop at the hollow transformation & stuff. He'll probably have other stuff up his sleeve.

I'd be willing to bet that Aizen (being some kind of shinigami genius) has discovered or learned a thing or two.


Also, I don't really mind that the characters of Bleach don't seem to have very high maxes (though they seem prety high to me). I'd rather it was that then becoming seriously overpowered, like the major DBZ characters.

Then again, One Piece doesn't seem to have very high maxes either. Sure, you've got Luffy's gears and Chopper's monster transformation & stuff, but that's about it.


To be honest, you're making it a lose/lose situation for Bleach. Either the characters don't get powerful enough, or, if they do get more powered up, then you'll just complain that it's a deus ex machina and very poorly explained.

Actually, aren't all anime powerups essentially deus ex machinas? The major ones, I mean.

[I_like_Nonon]

Since this has basically become a bleach discussion topic, I'm changing the title to the official bleach topic.

[I_like_Nonon]

Ok, so maybe Bleach isn't that much better than Naruto.

Yes, it is. Bleach is much better than Naruto, despite having a few flaws. Naruto has millions of flaws.

Sasuke taking part in at least 10.000 of them.

Actually, I have to say you're wrong here.

It's not that Naruto has millions are flaws, it's just that Naruto's flaws seem bigger because it has not been written in a way that limits itself, while Bleach has been written in a way so that some of it's flaws can't be fixed without it become Dues ex machina, or breaking it's preset laws without seeming stupid. It was almost pushing it with the Shinigami-Hollow blurring thing, but it's still acceptable. If it were, to say, add a third release out of nowhere, it would just seem pulled out the backside.

What I'm saying is, While Bleach has let Ichigo pretty much grow to his (Disappointingly low) max, (as soon as he masters the hollow transformation thing) Naruto simply just hasn't let Naruto grow enough yet. (Although, by author comments, it is coming)

Shadow clone feint and then Rasenshuriken is only going to last so long, as will Hollow Transformation and then red Getsuga Tenshou.

Naruto could be better, but Bleach has got to pull something out fast, or it's gonna run itself into the ground.

So Bleach > Naruto, but's it's not so far behind. If you ask me, both could be better, And I'm waiting for the start of the next arcs to see if they'll redeem themselves.

And I didn't even talk about other things! I'm a bad fan. >_>

I don't think bleach limits itself personally. I can't speak much, since I haven't read up on the manga in like forever, but from what I've read of spoilers, it doesn't seem like it limits itself too much. As gar said, Tite probably has a trick up his sleeve. If not, he can probably come up with one. It's always possible to think of new things.

Well, personally I didn't feel like they pushed it with the shinigami - hollow thing. For me, that was like Luffy getting his gear 2nd and gear 3rd. It was just cool, it didn't feel pushed. But that's just my opinion really. I will agree taht if they just suddenly had a third soul faction completely out of nowhere, that would be slightly deus ex machina like.

And Ichigo's max isn't disappointingly low... The climax of the Ichigo vs Kenpachi fight was a clash of DBZ style proportions, with the energy explosions and the what not. And Ichigo is stronger now, so I can't imagine it being disappointingly low... unless of course Ichigo got weaker. Ichigo can still become stronger, (fro the same reasons as the above paragraph) as can Naruto. We don't know how they'll become stronger, but they will.

As you said, the rasenshuriken and Hollow transformation won't last long. So Tite and Kishimoto will come up with something new. That's how it always is.

And naruto could be better, if Kishimoto could actually focus on the main character instead of the emo cry cry club. I still say it wouldn't be as good as bleach. Bleach does repeat itself an awful lot, but even THEN it's still better than the current Naruto.

It' good you didn't talk about other things, since I know I'll be slaughtered for saying these things, since I haven't seen or read bleach in like a year <_<

[Fuuka Yamagishi]

Well, what I meant by low max is that there's not a lot that could be done for fighting abilities. You have 2 abilities given by your sword, and that's pretty much it. Some characters have swords that could be used in multiple ways with the same ability, and that can be pretty interesting.

I suppose I forgot entirely about Kido, and that right there is a criminally underused part of Bleach. (I mean, it had only a little focus, one or two fights)

You said about abilities being limited in One Piece... It's true, they "technically" have only one ability, but generally, the whole challenge of having a new ability is to find out in what creative and useful ways you can use it. I really think this kind of thing needs to be done more in other manga.

[Gargravarr]

Well, Kubo could introduce new stuff, but chances are that you'd just dismiss them as deus ex machinas.

Eh, I have faith in Kubo. He hasn't let me down so far, and neither has Oda. Kishimoto, on the other hand...

[Fuuka Yamagishi]

Well, Kubo could introduce new stuff, but chances are that you'd just dismiss them as deus ex machinas.

Eh, I have faith in Kubo. He hasn't let me down so far, and neither has Oda. Kishimoto, on the other hand...

Depends on when it's introduced really. If it's in the middle of a fight, then it's a DEM.
But, if it's like a whole arc of trying to uncover a new power, That'd actually be kind of interesting.

[Gargravarr]

What if, say... one of the Gotei 13 captains unveiled a new ability in the middle of a battle? I mean, they could've been training "offscreen", so to speak.

Like Kenpachi using kendo in the battle against Nnoitra.

[Fuuka Yamagishi]

That one's fine, because it's not unbelievable. It was ok since it said he learned it a while back, I'm sure he practiced with it for that kind of situation.

But, in Ichigo Vs. Kenpachi in soul society, where Ichigo takes an acid trip into his mind to talk to his sword, it felt more like a cop-out to give Ichigo the almost-win.
He went from sure to lose, to them both being KO'd.

Hmm... *Hacks it to sound less negative*

[Rai]

Since this has basically become a bleach discussion topic, I'm changing the title to the official bleach topic.

I was wondering when we got a Bleach topic.


And personally, I like that character limits are more present in Bleach.

[Gargravarr]

That one's fine, because it's not unbelievable. It was ok since it said he learned it a while back, I'm sure he practiced with it for that kind of situation.

But, in Ichigo Vs. Kenpachi in soul society, where Ichigo takes an acid trip into his mind to talk to his sword, it felt more like a cop-out to give Ichigo the almost-win.
He went from sure to lose, to them both being KO'd.

Hmm... *Hacks it to sound less negative*

I can't even remember what that conversation with Zangetsu was about... It's been so long since I've seen that fight...

But as far as I'm aware, after that, things like that have rarely happened. They usually have explanations.

[Rai]

It was about the will to cut, I think <_<

I forget if he saw his hollow self then or not.