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Shin Megami Tensei General Topic

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Author Topic: Shin Megami Tensei General Topic  (Read 11432 times)
Maniac
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« Reply #2265 on: 25 October, 2016, 12:29:19 am »

even without all the weird hoops to jump through to get them, i'm still pretty annoyed how SMT4 and SMT4A handled Fiends. they're all like, within a range of 10 levels right at the end of the game rather than staggered out by level throughout the game like in Nocturne and Strange Journey -- by the time you get them, they mean nothing as opposed to being miscellaneous, heavily-customized demons you can pick up and use throughout the game
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« Reply #2266 on: 26 October, 2016, 06:13:35 pm »

My FFXIV subscription ends in 48 hours. Once it's done, I'm going to (among other things) make a headlong rush to finally finish this game (after not even touching it for almost a full month!) before I resubscribe.
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« Reply #2267 on: 27 October, 2016, 06:14:53 pm »

Where are you at?

I beat Vishnu-Flynn today after getting my ass handed to me on numerous occasions. Working on Fiends now that I'm done most/all? of the side quests, although I'll probably get the DLC and do that too since I want me some Mephisto on my team.
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I SERIOUSLY DREAMT OF FLOYD BEING A KILLER CYBORG WHO RAN 10 TIMES FASTER THAN ANY NORMAL HUMAN, AND THEN KILLED MM, TURNED FEMALE, WENT AFTER ME, AND I DROPPED FROM THE SKYSCRAPER! IT HURTED, BUT I AWAKE CALMLY, THINKING I WOULDN'T SEE YOU AGAIN.
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« Reply #2268 on: 27 October, 2016, 07:00:50 pm »

Right before the final dungeon, haven't even started it. Instead, I got distracted collecting fiends and trying to complete my compendium (**** yeah fusion accident demons). I'll prolly just no-life my way through the final dungeon in one sitting.

By the way, I've got a small question about the path you're on: In the Bonds route, you don't actually kill Krishna, you just re-seal him. Is it the same way in in the Massacre route?
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« Reply #2269 on: 27 October, 2016, 08:59:18 pm »

Right before the final dungeon, haven't even started it. Instead, I got distracted collecting fiends and trying to complete my compendium (**** yeah fusion accident demons). I'll prolly just no-life my way through the final dungeon in one sitting.

By the way, I've got a small question about the path you're on: In the Bonds route, you don't actually kill Krishna, you just re-seal him. Is it the same way in in the Massacre route?

Yeah that's where I'm at and I presume I'll be there for awhile.

Nah, you kill him with Masakado's katana in the Massacre route after the fight.
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I SERIOUSLY DREAMT OF FLOYD BEING A KILLER CYBORG WHO RAN 10 TIMES FASTER THAN ANY NORMAL HUMAN, AND THEN KILLED MM, TURNED FEMALE, WENT AFTER ME, AND I DROPPED FROM THE SKYSCRAPER! IT HURTED, BUT I AWAKE CALMLY, THINKING I WOULDN'T SEE YOU AGAIN.
*no gold, just us*
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« Reply #2270 on: 30 October, 2016, 10:58:51 pm »

Spent some time in the final dungeon. Not entirely sure how far I've gone, but I imagine it's fairly deep. This dungeon definitely is a thing. I'll leave it for you to see how, but uhhhh yeah, I guess I understand why the devs thought this would be cool, but in practice, it's decidedly not.

The final dungeon does have stat check doors -- some of them are shortcuts, but some of them seem to lead to optional, hidden stuff like armor pieces. Seems like the stat requirement is 100 for each one, but I'm 10 short on strength, so I left to farm some strength incense. Also changed my mind on the Fiends again, so I'm going through that place again. Got the last of the Riders, so I guess only Trumpeter and Mother Harlot are left.



speaking of fiends, am i weird for being disappointed that this game doesn't have chemtrail, the dumbest new demon from SMT IV?
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« Reply #2271 on: 01 November, 2016, 01:39:06 pm »

i love chemtrail and miss him dearly

I beat one of the DLC bosses and am working on the other (saving the ultimate superboss for after the game.) Mephisto was tough but fast so it was basically a matter of surviving long enough to buff and debuff him both to max levels so that Fear Darkness didn't instantly kill anyone. I had to fuse main number one trustangel Mastema to be able to handle him. Cleopatra seems like a longer, less immediately difficult fight and more an endurance run, especially with the horde right before her which is pretty tough and really long lasting.
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I SERIOUSLY DREAMT OF FLOYD BEING A KILLER CYBORG WHO RAN 10 TIMES FASTER THAN ANY NORMAL HUMAN, AND THEN KILLED MM, TURNED FEMALE, WENT AFTER ME, AND I DROPPED FROM THE SKYSCRAPER! IT HURTED, BUT I AWAKE CALMLY, THINKING I WOULDN'T SEE YOU AGAIN.
*no gold, just us*
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« Reply #2272 on: 17 November, 2016, 07:31:14 am »

I didn't play any while I was away so I'm back at it.

My team set up wasn't strong enough to outpace Trumpeter and Cleopatra right now, so I'm doing the final dungeon. I'm on the 4th Brane now and so far it hasn't been as bad as I've been lead to believe. Its not great or anything and it does one of my least favorite things (boss fight and then the boss is a regular enemy right after, and they do that with Metatron of all demons) but otherwise its whatever. Hoping to maybe beat it before Friday when Pokemon drops.
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I SERIOUSLY DREAMT OF FLOYD BEING A KILLER CYBORG WHO RAN 10 TIMES FASTER THAN ANY NORMAL HUMAN, AND THEN KILLED MM, TURNED FEMALE, WENT AFTER ME, AND I DROPPED FROM THE SKYSCRAPER! IT HURTED, BUT I AWAKE CALMLY, THINKING I WOULDN'T SEE YOU AGAIN.
*no gold, just us*
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« Reply #2273 on: 17 November, 2016, 07:58:40 am »

My problem with the final dungeon is two-fold:

1) It's not like, a special level of trial and error hell like Eridanus was, but it's tedious, overlong and its point has already been driven in long before it ends. It has an ungodly number of ambush spots and some really annoying horde battles that have gross amounts of HP and deal considerable-enough damage to usually kill someone in my party per horde.
2) Like, with the Massacre ending, the next step after laying the Divine Powers low is to end YHWH since that's the final step before your plan to recreate the universe has been completed. But with the Bonds ending, it's completely tacked on: You did what you came for, and basically the real narrative hook to confronting YHWH is just Steven appearing in a dream telling you to do so. So like, it's not like the final dungeon is a climactic lead-in to a battle you've really been waiting for throughout the game, so you're basically just getting a long, boring dungeon dumped in your lap for its own sake. It's weird because you actually get an epilogue for each character in the form of mail right after finishing the Cosmic Egg even though the game hasn't ended yet. I actually kinda wonder if the designers originally intended the whole final dungeon thing to be exclusive to the Massacre ending, and then they thought it wouldn't be fair if the Bonds ending was left out and decided to tack it on anyway.

I'm sitting right outside the final boss. Should probably just end the game; my completionist tendencies are bugging me about finishing off the Fiends before jumping on YHWH, but those Fiend fights are just so damn boring. They should have just made them DPS races/management like they did in SMT4 instead of monotonous battles of attrition.
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« Reply #2274 on: 17 November, 2016, 08:01:18 am »

My problem with the final dungeon is two-fold:

1) It's not like, a special level of trial and error hell like Eridanus was, but it's tedious, overlong and its point has already been driven in long before it ends. It has an ungodly number of ambush spots and some really annoying horde battles that have gross amounts of HP and deal considerable-enough damage to usually kill someone in my party per horde.
2) Like, with the Massacre ending, the next step after laying the Divine Powers low is to end YHWH since that's the final step before your plan to recreate the universe has been completed. But with the Bonds ending, it's completely tacked on: You did what you came for, and basically the real narrative hook to confronting YHWH is just Steven appearing in a dream telling you to do so. So like, it's not like the final dungeon is a climactic lead-in to a battle you've really been waiting for throughout the game, so you're basically just getting a long, boring dungeon dumped in your lap for its own sake. It's weird because you actually get an epilogue for each character in the form of mail right after finishing the Cosmic Egg even though the game hasn't ended yet. I actually kinda wonder if the designers originally intended the whole final dungeon thing to be exclusive to the Massacre ending, and then they thought it wouldn't be fair if the Bonds ending was left out and decided to tack it on anyway.

I'm sitting right outside the final boss. Should probably just end the game; my completionist tendencies are bugging me about finishing off the Fiends before jumping on YHWH, but those Fiend fights are just so damn boring. They should have just made them DPS races/management like they did in SMT4 instead of monotonous battles of attrition.

Point 2 seems pretty weird/annoying. I'm pretty well set up for random battles thankfully (especially since in Massacre you get the ability to Pierce with every attack on everything save Repel) so its not as bad. I'm also probably just tired of the Fiend Tokyo so any sort of wide open space is refreshing.
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Floyd is the devil.
I SERIOUSLY DREAMT OF FLOYD BEING A KILLER CYBORG WHO RAN 10 TIMES FASTER THAN ANY NORMAL HUMAN, AND THEN KILLED MM, TURNED FEMALE, WENT AFTER ME, AND I DROPPED FROM THE SKYSCRAPER! IT HURTED, BUT I AWAKE CALMLY, THINKING I WOULDN'T SEE YOU AGAIN.
*no gold, just us*
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« Reply #2275 on: 17 November, 2016, 01:13:58 pm »

I got to the final boss on my break at work. I lost on the last half but I feel I got close so hopefully it will go down tonight.

In general, I think most of the SMT and spin-off games I've played have really lame or disappointing final bosses. This one is up there with the best of the best for me in the series.
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Floyd is the devil.
I SERIOUSLY DREAMT OF FLOYD BEING A KILLER CYBORG WHO RAN 10 TIMES FASTER THAN ANY NORMAL HUMAN, AND THEN KILLED MM, TURNED FEMALE, WENT AFTER ME, AND I DROPPED FROM THE SKYSCRAPER! IT HURTED, BUT I AWAKE CALMLY, THINKING I WOULDN'T SEE YOU AGAIN.
*no gold, just us*
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« Reply #2276 on: 17 November, 2016, 06:00:24 pm »

It is complete. I'll mess around with some of the other DLC I have left tomorrow before Pokemon. I clocked in slightly over 55 hours, which is ten more than my initial SMT IV run was (although that was without DLC so might end up being near the same.) Not sure which I enjoyed more; Apoclaypse ended on a much greater note with the amazing last boss compared to IV's kind of weak one(s) and I liked some of the changes, but there's also some odd choices (Fiend fights are weird, partners seemed underutilized still to a degree.) IV also came at like the perfect time in my life (just quit my job so I needed a game to sink myself into.) Apocalypse is probably better just by right of fixing things and more content, but I think IV is still my favorite non-Nocturne game in the franchise.
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I SERIOUSLY DREAMT OF FLOYD BEING A KILLER CYBORG WHO RAN 10 TIMES FASTER THAN ANY NORMAL HUMAN, AND THEN KILLED MM, TURNED FEMALE, WENT AFTER ME, AND I DROPPED FROM THE SKYSCRAPER! IT HURTED, BUT I AWAKE CALMLY, THINKING I WOULDN'T SEE YOU AGAIN.
*no gold, just us*
Maniac
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« Reply #2277 on: 17 November, 2016, 08:15:13 pm »

Congrats on beating the game before I did.

Gameplay-wise, Apocalypse is a hell of a lot better than IV -- notably, it has a much better difficulty curve where it's not hammering you to death at the beginning, and it's not a complete snooze-fest by the end (or by 5 hours in, if we're talking about IV lol). The typical boss, while probably not too threatening, isn't a complete no-account loser -- pretty much all of them have clear, recognizable strategies, enough HP (generally) to implement their strategies before the die, better equipment to deal with **** that ruined every single boss in IV like reflection spells (read: Tetrakarn and Makarakarn) and buffs/debuffs, and higher damage to put some pressure on an unprepared player. The soft level cap (the point at which EXP starts turning out diminishing returns so small as to be negligible) is pretty damn high too, so a player running into a brick wall has quite a few options to level grind at different parts of the game.

Plot-wise, I dunno if Apocalypse could hold up on its own, but I kinda like how it's set inside Tokyo proper and that it kinda shows how the citizens of Tokyo live, especially after everything has gone to hell after the Expanse had been open by the end of IV. The cast was pretty damn anime, but I liked it more than the personality-less losers from IV who basically just existed as call-backs to the cast of SMT1. I think my only real problem is how the plot really feels like it's shilling the Divine Powers a bit too much by having them break into the setting and just roundly outfox Lucifer and Merkabah with some amateur hour tricks like playing dead, but I don't have enough loyalty to the idea that the main villains always have to represent chaos or law for that to really bug me that much.

Really, the only substantial blemish with the game is just the ending. It just plops it on your lap, it's not actually fun or exciting or climactic, it's just there for the SMT2 callback. Like, keep in mind that I hit the final dungeon over a month before you did and you still beat the game before I did, it's that high on the "I don't give a damn" scale. Like, up until the ending, I was gonna say the game was roundly better than IV, but I kinda don't know now. I mean, it's a fraction of the play time in the grand scheme of things, but a good or bad ending can kinda break a game and it feel like it kinda broke this one. Either way, I enjoyed the game plenty enough for the most part.

EDIT: Persona 5 in April now. Another Valentine's Day alone, then.
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« Reply #2278 on: 18 November, 2016, 07:06:29 am »

Persona 5 delayed another month in the States...  Cry
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« Reply #2279 on: 19 November, 2016, 11:04:06 am »

I attempted to beat the superboss and couldn't get past the first form so hey that's enough Apocalypse for now.
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Floyd is the devil.
I SERIOUSLY DREAMT OF FLOYD BEING A KILLER CYBORG WHO RAN 10 TIMES FASTER THAN ANY NORMAL HUMAN, AND THEN KILLED MM, TURNED FEMALE, WENT AFTER ME, AND I DROPPED FROM THE SKYSCRAPER! IT HURTED, BUT I AWAKE CALMLY, THINKING I WOULDN'T SEE YOU AGAIN.
*no gold, just us*
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