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I just saw the commercial for CN's new Batman show.

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Author Topic: I just saw the commercial for CN's new Batman show.  (Read 1740 times)
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I_like_Nonon
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« Reply #75 on: 06 November, 2008, 04:03:32 pm »

Ah, nostalgia. I see.
Partly, yes. Same reason Super Mario brothers was good, same reason Legend of Zelda was good, same reason Final fantasy was good, basically the same reason all old stuff was good. Pure unadultered nostalgia.

Oh, and the whole revolutionary thing as well. But you're right, it's nostalgia.

Well surely it's nostalgic because it was revolutionary.
Yeah, it most likely was. As I've said before, my opinion will always be biased, so what I say should probably be taken with a grain of salt <_<
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« Reply #76 on: 06 November, 2008, 06:29:21 pm »

Ah, nostalgia. I see.
Partly, yes. Same reason Super Mario brothers was good


...Are you saying that Super Mario Bros is not a good game without the help of nostalgia?
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« Reply #77 on: 06 November, 2008, 06:36:41 pm »

Ah, nostalgia. I see.
Partly, yes. Same reason Super Mario brothers was good


...Are you saying that Super Mario Bros is not a good game without the help of nostalgia?

I think he just means that a big reason people say Super Mario Bros is such a good game is because of nostalgia. It's still very good, but nostalgia hypes it up even more.
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« Reply #78 on: 06 November, 2008, 10:29:24 pm »

Ah, nostalgia. I see.
Partly, yes. Same reason Super Mario brothers was good


...Are you saying that Super Mario Bros is not a good game without the help of nostalgia?


I think he just means that a big reason people say Super Mario Bros is such a good game is because of nostalgia. It's still very good, but nostalgia hypes it up even more.

He went on to say in that post that how revolutionary those things were contribute their status now. I'm glad that you now get why B:TAS is so highly touted as being one of the best American cartoons ever made.

If I'm honest, I really don't see what the big deal is with TAS. (*anticipates a rant*)
*Rants*

Well, not really. Today, the animated show might not seem like much if you didn't see it back then. But you have to think of it this way: Back then, most cartoons were funny and/or satirical, and they didn't take the kids seriously. Death didn't exist, blood didn't exist, and every story ended happily and cheerfully.

Batman TAS changed all that, by actually taking it's audience seriously. The show treated kids like kids should be treated, and didn't hide anything. It showed that yes, there is actually death in the world. Yes, people do get injured badly from guns. Yes, explosions DO kill people, and not just cover them with black dust. And a lot of episodes ended on a sad note. I remember the last clayface episode ("Mudslide" I believe) ends with Clayface slowly disintegrating, as Batman holds on to him while hanging off a cliff. Clayface wants to be saved, but eventually his arm breaks apart, and he plummets into the river, and disintegrates, thus dying. The episode ends soon after, with the sad clayface music playing in the background. This was unheard of back then. Cartoons were supposed to bring happiness, not leave children like crying messes.

If I have to relate it to something, I'll relate it to super mario 64. Batman TAS was to western cartoons, as Mario 64 was to videogaming. It was revolutionary, innovating, well designed, and overall perfect. And you don't see what's so special about TAS, in the same way kids today dont' see what's so special about super mario 64. It was revolutionary, and great, but seeing it today for the first time makes it seem outdated.

THat's just my opinion at least.

That was said very well and every bit of it is the truth, not merely opinion.
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« Reply #79 on: 06 November, 2008, 10:48:13 pm »

It's amazing how a thread I posted went this completely off-topic. *Ponders*


....Well, not really. I guess it's just the magic of Salty.
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« Reply #80 on: 07 November, 2008, 08:52:46 am »

Ah, nostalgia. I see.
Partly, yes. Same reason Super Mario brothers was good


...Are you saying that Super Mario Bros is not a good game without the help of nostalgia?
No, I'm not. I'm just saying that if you made a 7-8 year old today play Super Mario Bros, they'd probably say that it was just "okay", but not as good as newer games. They didn't grow up with it, so they don't know how it innovated the gaming world by perfecting the side scrolling platforming genre. They didn't grow up with the happiness of actually kicking bowsers ass. They didn't grow up with the disappointment and endless rage when "The princess was in another castle".

In short, I'm saying that Nostalgia makes a lot of things better. Super Mario bros was a really great game for it's time, and even today it's still very fun and enjoyable. Nostalgia just serves as a sort of booster to it. Still a great game even without it though.

That was said very well and every bit of it is the truth, not merely opinion.
Thank you.
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« Reply #81 on: 08 November, 2008, 12:52:58 am »

Look, if it's that bad, chances are it'll only last two series at most. Why bother worrying about it? If you don't like it, don't watch it and wait for the next Nolan film. It's that simple.

Nolan said he wasn't going to be making another Batman movie. 'The Batman' series was decent, but not even on par with B:TAS which aired originally in 1992-1994. The newer B:TAS aired in 1997. Beyond was in 1999-2000. It's been over 10 years since a the original and eight since the futuristic cartoon. It's been a long time and this show could've been the spiritual successor to B:TAS, or at least as decent as The Batman.

Seriously folks, this is not a bad direction to take. You know why? It's exactly because of the success of The Dark Knight that people will enjoy this.

You're saying that hundreds of millions of people went to see TDK and loved it for its serious, dark take on a fundamentally dark character, yet instead of wanting more of that, they now "Batman & Robin (film): The Animated Series"? What sense does that make?

Prince of Persia: Warrior Within turned a overall upbeat game-hero and turned him into a dark, brooding character. Now, which game of the series is considered the worst? It seems that people didn't like complete character reversals that much; they loved the previous games for what they ere. No one ever asked for Sonic to take in overly 'emo'/emotionally distraught anti-hero characters and did that make the series better? Was it refreshing for fans of the older Sonic games to have to listen to Shadow screaming Maria's name?

The same can be said/asked about characters in movies/shows/books; Spiderman 3 is frequently cited as being the worst film of the trilogy, not just because of the convoluted story, but in part because of "Emo Parker". I don't need to explain further about why that is the case; sure, it was somewhat amusing, but there can be (and have been) funny things going on in the past Spiderman movies without it becoming a cheese-fest, similar to Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.

People don't want drastic change, especially where it is not needed; since this isn't something like human's energy usage situation which we need to change in order to survive as a species, we don't have any obligation to change Batman for the greater good. Overall (admit it; the majority of Batman fans don't want a silly Batman), we don't have to, we don't want to, and we don't need to change him. So why do it?
I love Batman. He was always one of my favorite superheroes growing up. But as I grew older, I began to love Batman for two very different reasons. One was the more serious Batman I knew from the Tim Burton movies and Batman: The Animated Series. But I loved the 60's Batman just as much. I like the idea that one character can be presented in such two, drastically different fashions. As much as I enjoy the darker, more serious Batman, I also enjoy laughing at the cheesy antics of Adam West. And you know what? I'm sure there are plenty of other Batman fans who enjoy laughing at the campy Batman as much as I do. After all, as campy as the 60s show was, it was initially very popular in its time.

You're under the impression that a silly Batman show is either wanted or needed, when neither is the case; all you go on is speculation and your own opinion to come to a conclusion that Batman has to be stupid and dopey at all in order to keep people from tiring of his dark image. The first Batman comic (in which he was an undeniably dark character) came out around 1938, correct? So, over the those 70-odd years, have people gotten tired of Batman? When has anyone ever said "Batman is too serious! I want him to make one-liners and smile as he beats up his foes like a generic super hero!"?

I agree. Balance is needed between the two version of Batman. I just hope doesn't get to the point where no-one can take Batman seriously. But that's a worst-case scenario that's pretty unlikely.

My god, go watch something, ANYTHING from Batman: The Animated Series before you make another argument about the balance between seriousness and comedy in Batman.

You both act as if there were no comedic parts to the newest Batman films; The Joker's walk as he blows up the hospital? Bruce Wayne pretending not to be saving Mr. Reese? Every scene with Lucius Fox? Every other scene with Alfred? There are far more scenes that I haven't even mentioned that you two are ignoring because they don't augment your arguments, and we haven't even gotten to discussing the funny, lighthearted parts of B:TAS.

Every episode that included the Joker in B:TAS was funny as hell; the Christmas episode in which Joker masterminds a series of traps and disasters just to lure Batman into a trap....so that he can open a present to receive a spring-loaded pie to the face? I'm not going to list any more because at least one of you clearly hasn't seen anything from that show to be arguing that cartoon Batman needs to be any more funny than he already is.

Yes, this is a kid's cartoon; so was B:TAS and Beyond, yet they still managed to be both dark and funny (thus staying true to Batman's image) without being overly so in either category. This new show is clearly too much silliness; you guys speak of wanting balance, yet you support this show that looks to be nothing but average CN comedy fare?

There's a reason he's such an iconic and loved character, and it's not because for every cool, genuinely dark iteration of the character, there was an equally opposite stupid version. People have loved Batman for being what he is; a human foil to all of the super-powered being sin his universe and social commentary of what is truly good and evil, even if it was during a kid's show. This new show does not uphold the mantle of the bat and it does not do Batman justice.

....when I was a kid, the Batman I grew up with, the Batman I knew best was Batman: TAS. I didn't discover campy 60s Batman until I was older. I'm not saying serious Batman means there can be no comedy.

I'm saying that campy Batman is just another way at looking at Batman. And I'm saying campy Batman is just as fun to watch. I like Batman being all dark and serious. I love Batman for being "the one guy without any superpowers."

But I also love seeing Batman being all goofy and cheesy. It makes me laugh because he's so fundamentally different than normal Batman.

Fans like you guys are exactly the reason we need a goofy Batman show.

Fans take Batman so serious. It's kind of sad. I saw this trailer, and saw it for what it was. A nostalgiac nod to something both horrible yet brilliant. A way for a normally dark series to poke fun at itself. A show meant to make fans laugh at the sheer absurdity of everything. Something, that if you take it too seriously, you become part of the joke.

You know why I know this will be popular? Batman fans who lived through the cheesy Batman show of the 60s will watch it with their children/grandchildren, basking in the nostalgia, remebering a time when Batman wasn't borderline angsty. The kids will watch it and see something funny, a goofy Batman they can pretend to be, running around going "fwoosh" and "bamf".
And Batman fans who know how not to take the series too seriously will watch it because it's funny to see such an out of character Batman.


Man, you guys would probably kill me if I ever told you about the D&D character I made for this one campaign I'm going to play in called "Bat-Gnome".
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« Reply #82 on: 08 November, 2008, 12:57:42 am »

*Kills you*
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« Reply #83 on: 08 November, 2008, 01:01:19 am »

*dodges as the word dodge appears over the screen in bright, cheesy letters*
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« Reply #84 on: 08 November, 2008, 01:04:17 am »

*dodges as the word dodge appears over the screen in bright, cheesy letters*
*Makes homosexual jokes as you fall, the Bat Credit Card embedded in your skull*
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« Reply #85 on: 08 November, 2008, 01:05:26 am »

I'm hoping we can all admit that the 1960's Batman had the best Riddler ever. Frank Gorshin made the Riddler.
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« Reply #86 on: 08 November, 2008, 01:11:57 am »

60's Batman Riddler is obviously the best Riddler ever. <_<


And ZF, while you may be making the comparison with this more to the 1960's Batman series, (which was good in it's own right) I'd say it's a lot more likely to make a comparison to Schumacher's Batman movies, which is, well, not good.
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« Reply #87 on: 08 November, 2008, 09:20:11 am »

This baffles me.


ZF, if given the choice between a good Batman cartoon, and a "horrible" one (as you've described this new one), you would choose the latter?

All the kids who'd be watching this show with their grandparents that you mentioned who have never seen B:TAS will only think of Batman as he appears in this show; the ones old enough not to be entertained merely by the silliness and who don't know how serious Batman normally is (the contrast between the campy Batman and the more serious one is what supposedly makes it funny to people) will only see him as being stupid. In turn, they'll never even bother to seek out any of the other Batman shows/comics/movies because of the impression this "horrible" show left upon them.

You act as if another B:TAS series will just come strolling along after this one; that is almost definitely not the case.

Let me try get you to understand just how I feel, since you don't seem to be trying to not understand: Think of a game series that came out a while ago that was absolutely incredible; not just for the memories you've had with it, but because each game was fundamentally incredible in every way. Crash Bandicoot is a prime example of this; the following actually happened to that series.

Years later, you find out a sequel is being made for it; you think about all of the possibilities for it, what with advanced technology and the overall higher standards for videogames today.

You see the trailer for it; instead of it being the spiritual successor to that wonderful game you remember, it is now a shoddy knock-off of what it once was. Instead of building upon what made the series great, the developers went down an entirely different path and added things no one wanted and that the series didn't really need. You didn't necessarily hype the game up so much that it could never live up to your expectations; instead the game just wasn't truly a part of that same series you loved anymore.

Now, imagine someone coming to you and telling you that the series needed to take this turn and that it's sad that anyone would want to keep the series as it used to be, improving upon the older mechanics. They acknowledge that this new game is worse than the previous ones, yet they defend it unwaveringly, saying that it's a good thing that the series is no longer what it was at all. Then, they tell you that if you don't like it, don't play it and wait for another good one to come out (when you and this person know quite well that that isn't going to happen anytime soon).

Does it still seem so stupid to you? To be hurt by what has been done to something you liked (and still genuinely like) so much?
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« Reply #88 on: 08 November, 2008, 10:13:33 am »

This baffles me.


ZF, if given the choice between a good Batman cartoon, and a "horrible" one (as you've described this new one), you would choose the latter?

All the kids who'd be watching this show with their grandparents that you mentioned who have never seen B:TAS will only think of Batman as he appears in this show; the ones old enough not to be entertained merely by the silliness and who don't know how serious Batman normally is (the contrast between the campy Batman and the more serious one is what supposedly makes it funny to people) will only see him as being stupid. In turn, they'll never even bother to seek out any of the other Batman shows/comics/movies because of the impression this "horrible" show left upon them.

You act as if another B:TAS series will just come strolling along after this one; that is almost definitely not the case.

Let me try get you to understand just how I feel, since you don't seem to be trying to not understand: Think of a game series that came out a while ago that was absolutely incredible; not just for the memories you've had with it, but because each game was fundamentally incredible in every way. Crash Bandicoot is a prime example of this; the following actually happened to that series.

Years later, you find out a sequel is being made for it; you think about all of the possibilities for it, what with advanced technology and the overall higher standards for videogames today.

You see the trailer for it; instead of it being the spiritual successor to that wonderful game you remember, it is now a shoddy knock-off of what it once was. Instead of building upon what made the series great, the developers went down an entirely different path and added things no one wanted and that the series didn't really need. You didn't necessarily hype the game up so much that it could never live up to your expectations; instead the game just wasn't truly a part of that same series you loved anymore.

Now, imagine someone coming to you and telling you that the series needed to take this turn and that it's sad that anyone would want to keep the series as it used to be, improving upon the older mechanics. They acknowledge that this new game is worse than the previous ones, yet they defend it unwaveringly, saying that it's a good thing that the series is no longer what it was at all. Then, they tell you that if you don't like it, don't play it and wait for another good one to come out (when you and this person know quite well that that isn't going to happen anytime soon).

Does it still seem so stupid to you? To be hurt by what has been done to something you liked (and still genuinely like) so much?

In all fairness, we've just had The Batman. That was more of a spiritual successor to TAS than this new show is. You act as if we haven't had anything at all since TAS.

Actually, TAS has had plenty of successors, even if they're not exclusively Batman.

The New Batman Adventures
Batman Beyond
Justice League/JLU (not exclusively Batman, but he was a major player in both of them)
The Batman (not DCAU, but still decent)

And now one show comes along that shows Batman in the "Campy" way, and you act as if DC hasn't given you anything since TAS finished.

I can't help feeling that you're overreacting a bit to this...
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« Reply #89 on: 08 November, 2008, 10:31:49 am »

In all fairness, we've just had The Batman. That was more of a spiritual successor to TAS than this new show is. You act as if we haven't had anything at all since TAS.

Actually, TAS has had plenty of successors, even if they're not exclusively Batman.

The New Batman Adventures
Batman Beyond
Justice League/JLU (not exclusively Batman, but he was a major player in both of them)
The Batman (not DCAU, but still decent)

And now one show comes along that shows Batman in the "Campy" way, and you act as if DC hasn't given you anything since TAS finished.

If you've read my posts, then you've seen where I've mentioned Batman Beyond; just as you said, JL/JLU were good, yet they weren't Batman shows. Batman's villains are an integral part of Batman himself, and how many other Batman villains appeared in that show besides the Joker in that one two-part episode?

I can't help feeling that you're overreacting a bit to this...

I never expected you of all people to understand.
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